I'm more worried legitimate needed corrections for stopping public nuisances, theft & violent crime will be cover for reopening drug war 2.0 and the arrest and jail everyone damn the root causes approach that inevitably leads to more recidivism and incarceration and makes it impossible for people to reenter the workforce.
I'm more worried legitimate needed corrections for stopping public nuisances, theft & violent crime will be cover for reopening drug war 2.0 and the arrest and jail everyone damn the root causes approach that inevitably leads to more recidivism and incarceration and makes it impossible for people to reenter the workforce.
Yeah. There has to be some middle ground. I'm not in California and not voting on this proposition, so I don't have to make a decision about it, but here in New York, I hate that paying for subway and bus fare now is effectively optional, with crowds of fare-beaters openly sneaking in without consequences, and that traffic regulations don't seem to be enforced anymore, with people riding motorcycles on the sidewalk, etc., etc. It can't be that the only alternatives are for cops to beat the shit out of people and put them in brutal prisons for years unnecessarily or for important laws and regulations to be routinely flouted without consequences.
Exactly. That's the way it used to be. The police would give them a summons to appear in court. If they were no-shows, the consequences would get more serious.
I think they should go back to giving them summonses and making offenders pay a heavy enough fine to discourage it, unless they decide to make subway and bus fare free, but that's not possible with the levels of funding for the system. But the main problem is that there aren't enough cops patrolling the turnstiles or buses. And the MTA is losing tremendous amounts of money as a result.
Yes, my sentiment exactly. We as Democrats (ideally many of us are liberal) should not be regressive but progressive for a reason - To ensure those being convicted of a crime should serve time as needed that's a reasonable sentence.
And also, those convicted should be able to wipe their record off as quickly as possible once they serve time if it means they have to get employment and a fair shot at reentering society. We already have a major problem with overcrowding in prisons.
A lot of Americans don't know or understand that in some European countries with way, way lower murder rates than the U.S., murderers get only a few years in prison, and prisoners aren't routinely assaulted and raped or otherwise treated like crap in some of those systems. There's a strong sentiment for retribution in the U.S., but the most important question is how best to protect society. Putting everyone who violates every kind of law and regulation in prison, not to mention jailing them for years while they are legally presumed and may be innocent, awaiting trial, is not the best way to protect society. But of course, neither is letting people get away with openly violating laws and regulations, whether their names are Donald Trump or Joe Shmoe.
I'm more worried legitimate needed corrections for stopping public nuisances, theft & violent crime will be cover for reopening drug war 2.0 and the arrest and jail everyone damn the root causes approach that inevitably leads to more recidivism and incarceration and makes it impossible for people to reenter the workforce.
Yeah. There has to be some middle ground. I'm not in California and not voting on this proposition, so I don't have to make a decision about it, but here in New York, I hate that paying for subway and bus fare now is effectively optional, with crowds of fare-beaters openly sneaking in without consequences, and that traffic regulations don't seem to be enforced anymore, with people riding motorcycles on the sidewalk, etc., etc. It can't be that the only alternatives are for cops to beat the shit out of people and put them in brutal prisons for years unnecessarily or for important laws and regulations to be routinely flouted without consequences.
They should go back to arresting those who donтАЩt pay their fares to ride the subway.
What's wrong with fining them? I'd rather arrest if the fair evaders refuse to pay.
Exactly. That's the way it used to be. The police would give them a summons to appear in court. If they were no-shows, the consequences would get more serious.
I think they should go back to giving them summonses and making offenders pay a heavy enough fine to discourage it, unless they decide to make subway and bus fare free, but that's not possible with the levels of funding for the system. But the main problem is that there aren't enough cops patrolling the turnstiles or buses. And the MTA is losing tremendous amounts of money as a result.
Yes, my sentiment exactly. We as Democrats (ideally many of us are liberal) should not be regressive but progressive for a reason - To ensure those being convicted of a crime should serve time as needed that's a reasonable sentence.
And also, those convicted should be able to wipe their record off as quickly as possible once they serve time if it means they have to get employment and a fair shot at reentering society. We already have a major problem with overcrowding in prisons.
A lot of Americans don't know or understand that in some European countries with way, way lower murder rates than the U.S., murderers get only a few years in prison, and prisoners aren't routinely assaulted and raped or otherwise treated like crap in some of those systems. There's a strong sentiment for retribution in the U.S., but the most important question is how best to protect society. Putting everyone who violates every kind of law and regulation in prison, not to mention jailing them for years while they are legally presumed and may be innocent, awaiting trial, is not the best way to protect society. But of course, neither is letting people get away with openly violating laws and regulations, whether their names are Donald Trump or Joe Shmoe.