I'm pretty sure 2016 was worse since Wikileaks, FB misninfo, and Comey successfully counterprogrammed the Access Hollywood scandal. Also, we were in the aftermath of that horrendous waste of time called "gamergate" which was finessed by Bannon.
I'm pretty sure 2016 was worse since Wikileaks, FB misninfo, and Comey successfully counterprogrammed the Access Hollywood scandal. Also, we were in the aftermath of that horrendous waste of time called "gamergate" which was finessed by Bannon.
I think I recall you way back then expressing worry about how some people in a newsroom focus group were somehow more aware of Wikileaks stuff than Trump's candid dishing on his sexual harassment game.
Correct. I predicted Wikileaks would have more impact on Hillary than the Access Hollywood tape would on Trump. Nonetheless, I don't recall open displays of voter sexism or hand-wringing by Hillary's campaign that she didn't think large numbers of voters wouldn't vote for her because she's a woman.
They were more subtle I think. They portrayed her as man-ish, a shrew, a snarling cur, and an alcoholic (which is only an object of mockery for those people when it's a woman).
Yes I do remember that. But again, I'm asking specifically about voters expressing reticence in voting for a woman.....or Hillary's campaign expressing that it was a concern that people wouldn't vote for a woman the way some in Harris's campaign is now. I don't recall those conversations eight years ago.
The typical 2016 Hillary voter in my experience started out by saying, тАЬSheтАЩs not really my first choice, but I guess we have to vote for her.тАЭ I do recall one white female friend (a friend since childhood and ex-gf with an abusive mother who is now in a long term lesbian relationship) who expressed that they were voting for Trump in part because Hillary was a woman.
I do think Mark has a point that the emergence of the manosphere in the last 2-3 years has made such proclamations louder than they might have been in a previous cycle
Like youтАЩve got people outright saying women shouldnтАЩt be allowed to vote now 105 years after the 19th amendment, that was sure as shit not a thing in 2016
The same kind of unsubtle people as the ones who made a fancam of DeSantis with the Nazi Black Sun symbol superimposed over his face and didn't understand why that was a horrible thing.
I also think that Hillary, by virtue of who sheтАЩs married to, was uniquely ill-equipped to take advantage of Access Hollywood.
It does make me feel old that Gen Zers are apparently hearing about the tape for the first time in TikTok since they were 10-15 when it came out ЁЯШ╡тАНЁЯТл
It was just bad timing. Reverse the tape and the Comey letter and Hillary wins, probably while picking up the Senate as well.
But ultimately the tape was basically the last bad news for Trump, while Clinton got the wikileaks for a couple of weeks, then bad Obamacare news (HUGE rate increases announced right before the election at a time when that was still politically meaningful), then Comey.
It was such a barrage of bad headlines for Clinton that it got drowned out - but this was at the time that the ACA was still a big thing - so if you are using the ACA insurance market at the time and Hillary is saying - this is as good as it gets and Trump is saying - we can do better - well maybe you believe him.
I'm pretty sure 2016 was worse since Wikileaks, FB misninfo, and Comey successfully counterprogrammed the Access Hollywood scandal. Also, we were in the aftermath of that horrendous waste of time called "gamergate" which was finessed by Bannon.
If that's true, it wasn't on my radar at all in 2016.
I think I recall you way back then expressing worry about how some people in a newsroom focus group were somehow more aware of Wikileaks stuff than Trump's candid dishing on his sexual harassment game.
Correct. I predicted Wikileaks would have more impact on Hillary than the Access Hollywood tape would on Trump. Nonetheless, I don't recall open displays of voter sexism or hand-wringing by Hillary's campaign that she didn't think large numbers of voters wouldn't vote for her because she's a woman.
They were more subtle I think. They portrayed her as man-ish, a shrew, a snarling cur, and an alcoholic (which is only an object of mockery for those people when it's a woman).
Remember Trump saying she was a "nasty woman"?
Yes I do remember that. But again, I'm asking specifically about voters expressing reticence in voting for a woman.....or Hillary's campaign expressing that it was a concern that people wouldn't vote for a woman the way some in Harris's campaign is now. I don't recall those conversations eight years ago.
Like I said...There were all kinds of questions about that in the media, for example.
To the extent it seems more pronounced in 2024, it could be because 2016 made it an open question because how else could he have won that year?
The typical 2016 Hillary voter in my experience started out by saying, тАЬSheтАЩs not really my first choice, but I guess we have to vote for her.тАЭ I do recall one white female friend (a friend since childhood and ex-gf with an abusive mother who is now in a long term lesbian relationship) who expressed that they were voting for Trump in part because Hillary was a woman.
Wow!
I do think Mark has a point that the emergence of the manosphere in the last 2-3 years has made such proclamations louder than they might have been in a previous cycle
Like youтАЩve got people outright saying women shouldnтАЩt be allowed to vote now 105 years after the 19th amendment, that was sure as shit not a thing in 2016
The same kind of unsubtle people as the ones who made a fancam of DeSantis with the Nazi Black Sun symbol superimposed over his face and didn't understand why that was a horrible thing.
You know IтАЩd forgotten about that
I remember all kinds of sexism in 2016 but I think they played up the baggage from the Clinton years more loudly and effectively.
Having mostly gotten away with a huge amount of shit, they're going much further now.
Agreed but with zero subtlety(my gut here tells me that is not helpful to them; I still feel on a basic level that the average American is 'decent')
I also think that Hillary, by virtue of who sheтАЩs married to, was uniquely ill-equipped to take advantage of Access Hollywood.
It does make me feel old that Gen Zers are apparently hearing about the tape for the first time in TikTok since they were 10-15 when it came out ЁЯШ╡тАНЁЯТл
It was just bad timing. Reverse the tape and the Comey letter and Hillary wins, probably while picking up the Senate as well.
But ultimately the tape was basically the last bad news for Trump, while Clinton got the wikileaks for a couple of weeks, then bad Obamacare news (HUGE rate increases announced right before the election at a time when that was still politically meaningful), then Comey.
Yup. Disastrous last two weeks of headlines, zero momentum into E-Day
man I don't remember that Obamacare thing
It was such a barrage of bad headlines for Clinton that it got drowned out - but this was at the time that the ACA was still a big thing - so if you are using the ACA insurance market at the time and Hillary is saying - this is as good as it gets and Trump is saying - we can do better - well maybe you believe him.