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James Trout's avatar

Whether you like it or not, it's not just conservatives and Republicans who are concerned about violent crime. Whenever people "hear stories" about crime and murder, they get scared and think "I'm/we're next" and that they must be "protected." Lest we forget that the first two states to pass so called three strikes laws were Washington and California, two not exactly red states, even back in the 1990s. That fact alone should have been a warning sign to "progressives" that "Defund the Police" was a terrible strategy and slogan and it would backfire. We can point to statistics all we want, but fear will always win out. People want the "scary/bad people" to be punished and being seen as "soft on crime" remains a drawback. Even in Blue America.

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Oceanblaze17's avatar

You’re 100% correct. And not dealing with those who shoplift, break into cars, carjack, and commit quality of life crimes is a political loser.

Defund the Police was the worst message too.

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James Trout's avatar

And the notion that "Defund the Police" apologists have that it failed due to Democrats not standing behind it and "explaining" it is not at all based in reality. The fact that even in deep blue cities voters are rejecting policies seen as "anti police" says it all.

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Oceanblaze17's avatar

Exactly. Even in the most liberal cities those policies are unpopular.

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Jonathan's avatar

Minneapolis Mayor says 'hello'

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michaelflutist's avatar

Yeah, it's an utterly stupid slogan. But thinking crime is always the worst it's ever been is terrible for sound policy, and the solution is not to hang 'em high all the time. There has to be some kind of sanity.

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ArcticStones's avatar

Democrats should long ago have pivoted loudly to "Republicans want to defund the Police and law enforcement". Not just the FBI, but the EPA, FDA and all sorts of other agencies that ensure individual and corporate compliance with laws and regulations.

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benamery21's avatar

Trumpeting GOP propaganda on crime is also a political loser for real Democrats.

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Oceanblaze17's avatar

No it’s not. Being pro-criminal is a bad thing. The DLC was created to purge those soft on crime elements from having any significant influence in the party.

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benamery21's avatar

Yeah, real Democrats don’t execute the mentally disabled as a political stunt, and describing belief in human rights as “pro-criminal” is criminal for a Democrat.

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Oceanblaze17's avatar

Are you talking about Clinton in 1992? He did what he needed to do to win and I don’t fault him for letting that guy get executed.

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benamery21's avatar

Using “DLC” as an exemplar rather than an epithet in 2024, is counter to values shared by the pro-Constitution, pro-civil rights, pro-civil liberties, pro-human rights core of the party. You might as well say Dixiecrat.

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Oceanblaze17's avatar

How old are you? Were you alive in the 1980s, when Democrats were losing presidential elections by 40+ state landslide margins?

The DLC was needed desperately back then to make the Democratic Party attractive to voters. Crime was one of the issues they were right about.

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benamery21's avatar

You first. I remember the CIA importing cocaine to the U.S. and the GOP providing chemical weapons targeting info to Iraq while selling weapons to Iran, yes.

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Oceanblaze17's avatar

So you’re one of those far, fringe left types.

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benamery21's avatar

Newsflash:the fringe that voted against the Civil Rights Act, because we needed to keep the South Solid? Not where we are as a party.

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michaelflutist's avatar

I forgot, were you at DKE, and under what moniker, or do we have a new troll who's trying to disrupt things by using right-wing propaganda to caricature and attack the left? Is your line of "argumentation" analysis of campaigns and elections?

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TheDude415's avatar

What's far left and fringe about that?

The CIA, at best, knew about the Contras smuggling drugs into the US and looked the other way.

That's not a fringe argument. John Kerry chaired a whole Senate committee during his freshman term that found exactly this.

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michaelflutist's avatar

I was. And maybe that outrage was politically necessary then, but it isn't now.

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Paleo's avatar

And had control of congress, most governors and most state legislatures.

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James Trout's avatar

And the people who "had control of Congress, most Governors and most state legislatures" were to the RIGHT of where the Democratic Party is today. Back then, Joe Manchin would have been considered a "radical liberal."

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michaelflutist's avatar

Manchin never would have been considered very liberal, let alone a radical, in my lifetime. Do you forget that there used to be moderate and liberal Republicans?

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michaelflutist's avatar

"Pro-criminal" is utter bullshit. No-one is pro-criminal. It's like calling Democrats "anti-life" for supporting abortion rights.

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TheDude415's avatar

Who's pro-criminal?

Seriously, please point to any serious Democratic candidate who has espoused views that are in favor of criminals.

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benamery21's avatar

Who funds them hearing those stories?

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James Trout's avatar

That's irrelevant. Rightly or wrongly fear sells. We do ourselves and the American people no favors by pretending that the electorate is rational.

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benamery21's avatar

It’s not irrelevant, recognizing this is the first logical step in counter-acting it. Unanswered propaganda is very effective, yes. That doesn’t mean it’s a natural, unavoidable state of affairs.

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benamery21's avatar

Appeals to lizard brain are not limited to the current slate.

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James Trout's avatar

It also doesn't help when some on the left insist and insist and insist that Democrats embrace words and phrases that THEY like.......but nobody else does. This is precisely what happened with the "Defund" nonsense. Many of us rational Democrats - those of us who accept that the USA is not Vermont or NYC politically or demographically - said "reform the police" in response. We were told "Republican lite" or "not good enough." Never mind the fact to most Americans, defund = abolish/eliminate. And all the "explaining" in the world is NOT going to change that simple fact.

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Oceanblaze17's avatar

You’re 100% correct.

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benamery21's avatar

Did you know that the majority of people killed by strangers in this country are killed by cops?

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James Trout's avatar

Good luck with telling that to the American electorate. "Democrats don't care about your safety!"

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benamery21's avatar

The fact that every adult in the country doesn’t know this is part of the gaping hole in messaging that’s not being filled by the idiots backing messengers like Eric Adams.

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James Trout's avatar

Nope. It's because the police are a sacred cow in this country. In the eyes of the majority, to insult or trash one police officer is to insult or trash ALL police officers. There's a word for politicians who bank on the rationality of votes: losers.

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benamery21's avatar

Trust in cops is neither monolithic nor immutable, as we saw in 2020. There’s more than enough police misconduct to run a story every minute of every day.

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James Trout's avatar

That doesn't mean Democrats can afford to be seen as "anti police" or "anti safety." I'm not going to pretend that the electorate is rational. Had to learn that lesson the hard way back in 2004.

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Oceanblaze17's avatar

Yeah exactly. Being anti-cop is a political loser.

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