Your argument is circular . You state that the legislature can not overturn the State Supreme Court’s decision because the later is the ultimate arbiter and they would reject any attempt to override their decision. However that misunderstands the Virginia constitution that makes the People the ultimate arbiter of the Constitution. The People have spoken and their vote is final word on the maps.
There again the fundamental flaw in your argument is that judges get to determine the meaning of the Virginia Constitution; that is not case. In a democracy , the Legislature and the People determine the meaning of the VA Constitution , not 4 partisan judges.
The People sign petitions to have the legislature place a referendum on a proposal. If sufficient signatures are obtained and verified, the legislature places the referendum on the ballot for the next election. If the People vote in favor of the referendum, it becomes law. Courts have no jurisdiction over the referendum as it has been passed by the People unless there is unanimous vote that it is Unconstitutional.
No, the State Constitution is the final word on the maps. The democrats didn't follow the state constitution. We're not a democracy, but a Constitutional Republic. Just because 51% voted for the referendum doesn't mean it gets implemented. Now it would of, but democrats didn't follow the rules to approve the referendum before it was voted on. Also, let's not kid ourselves, the people of VA were lied to by the ballot language. Guarantee you if the ballot language was honest and included a picture of the new maps eliminating 4 republican seats so Dems have a 10-1 advantage then the referendum wouldn't of passed. Also, don't forget SCOTUS is above the VA supreme court, so even if this long shot works as intended, it'll be appealed to SCOTUS who will strike it down because the democrats didn't follow the rules. Democrats need to learn to follow the laws and the Constitution and quit treating both as suggestions.
That is false. The Constitution allows for referendum on the maps . The voters voted for the referendum. Therefore the maps are Constitutional. The Courts decision was just partisan gaslighting. They did not follow the Constitution therefore their decision is null and void.
Thomas Jefferson, from VIRGINIA in case you didn’t know it, would LOVE this thinking!! It’s not only outside the box, it’s outside the house that houses the box!! I’m so proud of this thinking! (From a Virginian who thought the SCOVA had lost its mind.)
The latest Amicus podcast discusses exactly this idea.
Orban did this maneuver, forcing judges into retirement by changing the retirement age.
"the first thing that Orban did is he got the parliament to lower the retirement age for judges so that all the judges that were serving, or the great majority of them, aged out by virtue of this law. "
In VA, the Legislature could do something ridiculous-but-legal (yet Constitutional) to circumvent an adverse Judicial decision that denied the will of the People. Whereas in Ohio, the Legislature did something un-Constitutional to defy the will of the People.
All because the respective Constitutions were written in ways that couldn't account for the myriad ways in which humans can decide to act. It is, of course, impossible to account for every conceivable action, even if the holes end up big enough to drive a truck through.
I don't like the idea that the Legislature can arbitrarily change the Supreme Court's forced-retirement age, especially since they would later have to readjust it upward to a more reasonable value; after all, it would be good for the Justices to have the wisdom of experience in a career. But it's all far less cold-blooded (and un-Constitutional, and illegal, and dirty) than has been perpetrated elsewhere by Republicans.
Not really brilliant, just delays the inevitable. This is another thoughtless and short-sighted shortcut for Democrats to get power. Let's say it all works according to plan, the VA members of the supreme court get retired by the change of retirement age, new woke and liberal members are appointed, and they then overturn the previous court's ruling and allow the map to move forward. Well, it will be appealed by the republicans, move up to SCOTUS, and will be overturned given how the democrats didn't follow the rules and the state constitution of VA. Democrats will be back to this same spot. How about democrats stop cheating, stop breaking the law and the constitution, and stop trying to work around the system. Democrats are just digging themselves into a greater hole as if them wasting 60 million dollars on the referendum for zero results isn't a bad enough hole for them.
Good points and Republicans would do it in a heartbeat if they were in power. Plus it generally makes common sense to lower the age for retirement to 70. Even 65 is a reasonable age. The main thing for Democrats in Virginia is to do something right now- appealing to the US SUPREME COURT is crazy and a waste of time and money!!! JUST DO IT NOW!!
Your argument is circular . You state that the legislature can not overturn the State Supreme Court’s decision because the later is the ultimate arbiter and they would reject any attempt to override their decision. However that misunderstands the Virginia constitution that makes the People the ultimate arbiter of the Constitution. The People have spoken and their vote is final word on the maps.
Obviously, the State doesn’t respect the people.
So what do you advise the people to do here?
The district maps should be enforced by the AG and the Governor and the votes should proceed for the November election
We spent a lot of time during this livestream explaining what would happen if Dems tried to do that.
There again the fundamental flaw in your argument is that judges get to determine the meaning of the Virginia Constitution; that is not case. In a democracy , the Legislature and the People determine the meaning of the VA Constitution , not 4 partisan judges.
How do the people and the legislature get to impose their vision then? What specific steps should they take?
The People sign petitions to have the legislature place a referendum on a proposal. If sufficient signatures are obtained and verified, the legislature places the referendum on the ballot for the next election. If the People vote in favor of the referendum, it becomes law. Courts have no jurisdiction over the referendum as it has been passed by the People unless there is unanimous vote that it is Unconstitutional.
No, the State Constitution is the final word on the maps. The democrats didn't follow the state constitution. We're not a democracy, but a Constitutional Republic. Just because 51% voted for the referendum doesn't mean it gets implemented. Now it would of, but democrats didn't follow the rules to approve the referendum before it was voted on. Also, let's not kid ourselves, the people of VA were lied to by the ballot language. Guarantee you if the ballot language was honest and included a picture of the new maps eliminating 4 republican seats so Dems have a 10-1 advantage then the referendum wouldn't of passed. Also, don't forget SCOTUS is above the VA supreme court, so even if this long shot works as intended, it'll be appealed to SCOTUS who will strike it down because the democrats didn't follow the rules. Democrats need to learn to follow the laws and the Constitution and quit treating both as suggestions.
That is false. The Constitution allows for referendum on the maps . The voters voted for the referendum. Therefore the maps are Constitutional. The Courts decision was just partisan gaslighting. They did not follow the Constitution therefore their decision is null and void.
If Dems win majorities in the House and Senate can they do that for SCOTUS?
No.
But the size and existence of SCROTUS is established by statute, not the Constitution.
POTUS + Congress can certaily expand, or even eliminate, SCOTUS in 2029. It has been expanded before.
They cannot eliminate SCOTUS.
They could effectively disolve this one and replace it with another.
Article III would be satified.
Why don’t we just ignore the state courts like they do. They don’t get in trouble?
This entire episode is devoted to explaining when and how this is possible and not possible!
Is there any chance VA will do this?
Thomas Jefferson, from VIRGINIA in case you didn’t know it, would LOVE this thinking!! It’s not only outside the box, it’s outside the house that houses the box!! I’m so proud of this thinking! (From a Virginian who thought the SCOVA had lost its mind.)
Interesting discussion with food for thought.
The latest Amicus podcast discusses exactly this idea.
Orban did this maneuver, forcing judges into retirement by changing the retirement age.
"the first thing that Orban did is he got the parliament to lower the retirement age for judges so that all the judges that were serving, or the great majority of them, aged out by virtue of this law. "
https://slate.com/transcripts/RklvNWcrQVUwQkE4LzIwa0pDZWFLU3VjRDFMYyszRHBjZkVLcXhMTmdPdz0=
If VA acts as you suggest, can SCOTUS still screw this up under the “Purcell Principle”?
A fascinating conundrum.
In VA, the Legislature could do something ridiculous-but-legal (yet Constitutional) to circumvent an adverse Judicial decision that denied the will of the People. Whereas in Ohio, the Legislature did something un-Constitutional to defy the will of the People.
All because the respective Constitutions were written in ways that couldn't account for the myriad ways in which humans can decide to act. It is, of course, impossible to account for every conceivable action, even if the holes end up big enough to drive a truck through.
I don't like the idea that the Legislature can arbitrarily change the Supreme Court's forced-retirement age, especially since they would later have to readjust it upward to a more reasonable value; after all, it would be good for the Justices to have the wisdom of experience in a career. But it's all far less cold-blooded (and un-Constitutional, and illegal, and dirty) than has been perpetrated elsewhere by Republicans.
Not really brilliant, just delays the inevitable. This is another thoughtless and short-sighted shortcut for Democrats to get power. Let's say it all works according to plan, the VA members of the supreme court get retired by the change of retirement age, new woke and liberal members are appointed, and they then overturn the previous court's ruling and allow the map to move forward. Well, it will be appealed by the republicans, move up to SCOTUS, and will be overturned given how the democrats didn't follow the rules and the state constitution of VA. Democrats will be back to this same spot. How about democrats stop cheating, stop breaking the law and the constitution, and stop trying to work around the system. Democrats are just digging themselves into a greater hole as if them wasting 60 million dollars on the referendum for zero results isn't a bad enough hole for them.
Good points and Republicans would do it in a heartbeat if they were in power. Plus it generally makes common sense to lower the age for retirement to 70. Even 65 is a reasonable age. The main thing for Democrats in Virginia is to do something right now- appealing to the US SUPREME COURT is crazy and a waste of time and money!!! JUST DO IT NOW!!